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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:30 pm 
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So has anyone tried the latest version of TSMC yet?

If so, what are your thoughts?

If not, why not?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:38 pm 
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No, reason being that I prefer dragon.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:55 pm 
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Real descriptive; mind telling me why that is?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:12 pm 
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i am working on a map right now, and I will test it with both TSMC and Dragon and compare the results.....so we will just have to wait and see :wink:

Btw i posted about tsmc on my site syd, hope I did alright..lol

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:42 pm 
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I've downloaded it but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. I've had a very heavy workload this week, even went and put in 6 hours today. It sounds overly complicated but I was tired and didn't give it a good read. What would really be nice is Dragon with a larger palette range. Of course that means more than an 8 bit image which would increase the image size by quite a lot. I'll try it out though.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:52 pm 
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Because Dragon is so simple. I can't imagine how much of a pain it is to have to make two images for one map.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:11 pm 
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I downloaded it and I made my first map with it today. I have a few thoughts about it:

  • First, Sydius, thanks a TON for making TSMC! Hopefully I'm not the only one who sees how good this program can be. I love the ability to have one image for the land tiles you use and another for the "topography." TSMC renders Dragon completely obsolete because of this flexibility.
  • Ryandor, thanks for making that tutorial! That's what helped me get started and make my first map today. I can also understand what's going on a little bit better, and my next experiments will be modifying the config files.
Ok, now a few questions about TSMC itself.
  1. In alt.raw, does it have to be a greyscale colortable, or can I use any palette that I want? This would make it easier to see small differences in elevation (like what Ryandor was talking about in the tutorial). I can probably figure the answer out on my own, I just haven't tried it yet.
  2. I was wondering why tiles.raw needs to be a 24bit file. With Dragon, you need a separate color for each tile at a specific height (i.e. grass at 10, forest at 10, forest at 12, etc). With TSMC, you really only need one color for grass. But TSMC expands the options to 16.7 million land tiles.
    Looking in InsideUO, there can't be more than 2000 land tiles, and that's including all the transitions. So back to my question, why does tiles.raw need to be 24-bit? It seems like if it was 8bit (256 colors), that would easily include all the land types.

    Dragon = 255 possible landtile/z-axis combos that can be placed

    TSMC = 255 x 16.7million = about 4,200,000,000 combinations that can be placed. Yes that's over 4 billion.

    I think all TSMC really needs is 256 x 256 - 65,025. I'm only suggesting it because it might help speed up the program, and so much versatility in land tiles isn't necessary.


Love the program, Sydius! Thanks for putting in the effort for all of us.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:38 pm 
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about your question number 2. I don't know I am sure Sydius could give you a proper answer, but I would imagine with this extra room future tiles uselessly concieved up by osi, and by those of us who like to make custom tiles will have no problem finding a -place for it :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:08 pm 
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I played around some and I think I know the answer to my 2 questions. It has to do with the *.raw file extension.

For #1 - no, it has to be greyscale. It's not handled the same way as the 256 color bmp.

For #2 - I think if we want to have tiles.raw in color, it will be at least 24bit. He could reduce color count by changing this file to greyscale too, but then we couldn't have green for grass, blue for water, etc. Also, he probably designed it to be compatible with STIC, which would require its own color for every tileID in the game.

So, it's good how it is :>

Sydius - have land transition tiles been implemented yet? My map isn't making the transitions between grass/mountain or grass/sand. The grass/water one has the static waves, but there are full blocks of water(not just little lines) missing around the coasts. I can post a screenshot if you want.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:24 pm 
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ardsdap wrote:
I was wondering why tiles.raw needs to be a 24bit file. With Dragon, you need a separate color for each tile at a specific height (i.e. grass at 10, forest at 10, forest at 12, etc). With TSMC, you really only need one color for grass. But TSMC expands the options to 16.7 million land tiles.
Looking in InsideUO, there can't be more than 2000 land tiles, and that's including all the transitions. So back to my question, why does tiles.raw need to be 24-bit? It seems like if it was 8bit (256 colors), that would easily include all the land types.

Dragon = 255 possible landtile/z-axis combos that can be placed

TSMC = 255 x 16.7million = about 4,200,000,000 combinations that can be placed. Yes that's over 4 billion.

I think all TSMC really needs is 256 x 256 - 65,025. I'm only suggesting it because it might help speed up the program, and so much versatility in land tiles isn't necessary.


Syd believes in overkill.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:52 pm 
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#1 Technically, no, it can use any palette you want. It goes by color index, not by brightness, though. Color index 127 will always be ?0? altitude. Every index below that grows increasingly lower, and every index above that gets increasingly higher. It?s very easy to change the palette if you remember that. Grayscale is just the ?natural? palette for that kind of setup. There is no technical limitation requiring it to remain grayscale, though. So feel free to change the palette to make it easier to detect differences in altitude, but just remember it goes by color index, not by actual color.

#2 Again, nope. There is no technical reason why a .raw file has to be grayscale or true-color. A raw image is just the raw image data ? exactly the same image data that is in a bitmap, .jpg, .gif, or any other image format you want, the difference is that a .raw file has no header (which is why it doesn?t remember the size of it after you close it) and no compression. That?s why I chose it ? it?s very easy to deal with programming-wise. A bitmap happens to be exactly the same, but with a simple header and the image is flipped. The reason I didn?t go with BMP, though, is because I didn?t want to deal with flipping the image? it?s annoying and I wasn?t originally intending to release this version to the public so it didn?t matter.

The real reason I chose 24 bit is because it allows you to do something very neat: not only can you have tile types that place random grass tiles etc., but you can literally have every single tile encoded individually. What?s the point in that, you ask? Heh, guess what that means?! You can dissect *ANY* map0.mul and turn it back into a fully-working image right away!!! You can literally turn the original UO map0.mul into an image that works with TSMC, and then turn it back to the original map0.mul via TSMC with absolutely NO ERRORS! You can?t even come close with Dragon. With TSMC, thanks to it being true-color, you CAN. So you can turn the hamburger back into a cow and then back into a hamburger with absolutely no errors or differences if you so choose!

Look at STIC (also on my download page) ? that?s what it does, takes a map0.mul and turns it into two images, one for tiles and one for altitude. The problem is that you have to have a config file that has every single tile type defined in it, so unless you?re bored enough to do that, it?s not going to work that well. Plus that version of STIC was designed to work with TSMC 2 (I believe), so it uses a completely different config file for colors, which just adds to the headaches.

But it can be done, and, in fact, it has been done. Ryandor successfully made the original map0.mul into a tiles.raw and alt.raw files, which, when ran through TSMC 2, turned back into the original map0.mul. It might still be floating around the forums someplace? He was very discrete about it, though.

At any rate? the config files for everything in this version of TSMC are VERY minimal. The transition scripts are fully functioning, but non-existent for the most part. You?ll have to add the other transition types manually. It?s not hard to figure out, though. Hopefully, if I get any support, I?ll go further and make them easier to work with.

As for water ? yeah, I know, it?s a bug in the transition script that I didn?t bother to fix. Just look for the all-water one? below the tiles (which are all -1 for ?don?t change? if I remember right) is a list of statics? I didn?t place the solid water tiles for corners right.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:34 am 
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I would have a lot more motivation to work on TSMC you guys showed a little more enthusiasm. *shoots you all*

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:36 am 
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Who? What?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:04 am 
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oh my god, oh my god *hops around*
sydius. you invented the greatest program ever! i can`t believe it! i think I?m dreaming. what a great program!

enough enthusiasm? :D


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:27 pm 
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Not even close.

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