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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:24 pm 
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Recently there where some responses on Orbsydia concerning my Mul2bmp utility that will take a mul file and generate a UO Landscaper BMP for the terrain and altitude (thread has been deleted). Bottom line, people objected as people could easily steal their maps. Orbsydia choose not to pursue this utility, for that same reason (which by itself, one can choose to build or not anything).

This is my thought on the subject that I ended the thread with on Orbsydia:

The following is my perspective and opinon. I do not plan or hope to sway anyone with this, but I felt I wanted to give my thoughts
(one can always hit the next button if one doesn't care, has no desire, or just about anything else which by definition will vastly more significant then what follows
here). I find it ironic and hyproctical that a community that depends so heavily on leveraging off others work, is not so concerned that their own work will be equally leveraged from.

It seems like a safe assumption that many here use RunUO as their emulator of choice. Does it bother anyone that the primary developer has disassemblied the client to learn its inner secrets?
The entire emulator scene benifits form the format, packet definition, and all other egineering to define those type things (good or bad). Yet this community wouldn't exist if that leverage had never occurred.

When it comes to custom maps, gumps, and other items, is anyone bothered that again, it leverages off others existing artwork? Unless one totally replaces all data (so one is then just leveraging off all the engineering) one is utilizing the "effort" of others. Maps that are based on OSI's, or even those like in Middle Earth are leveraging off others work (such as basing it off another story).
Apparently the concern seems to reach critical mass when it is this community work that might be leveraged. Personally I find that hypocritical and ironic.

But then it goes one step further. Those that have the ability to do so, decide for others what they should or should not be able to do. I am sure some may argue UOL allows one to easily exploit leveraging off the artwork that exists, in making custom maps. Yet as that served some interest, it was deemed a great advantage.

For me, I am fundementally opposed to groups deciding what tools should be available to others. It creates a "have and have not" situation. I generally support having a multitude of options, that others don't decide for me. And as with any tool (car, gun, credit card, etc), it can be abused. Specifically in this case, I have to wonder what the abuse is, and how it is different then the community at large in terms of abusing others work. I also question , again specifically in this case, why anyone feels, since the data resides on the client machine, they can prevent (by not providing tools) to leverage that data. Clearly that was not successful for OSI, as look at the tools that have all ready sprung up by Orbysida itself.

I do not challenge anyones opinon, they can hold what they want. But I find it both ironic and hyprocritical as I stated at the beginning, from my perspective.

But regardless of anyone's opinon, on this or other ones, the tool exists, and is available. This discussion of opinons wont change that fact.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:17 pm 
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I agree with you, and I am sure Ryandor will be more than pleased to help your tool succeed!

Thanks for the effort; it can be very frustrating to listen to the community you try so hard to help.

At any rate, my tool, STIC, can turn a map into true-color image as well ? but for use with my other tool, STMC. Both tools are true-color and separate tile ID from altitude by using a grayscale image for altitude and a true-color one for tile ID. Both are exceedingly simple to use. When combined with other readily-available tools on the internet (all of which, I believe, can be found in Ryandor?s file section), you have a map-making solution that can compile a very detailed ?natural? map from an image with half the effort and time of using Dragon? yet nobody uses or likes either because I left it to the community to finish the config files that drive them (and bloody simple ones, they are!)? Therefore, Ryandor finished them, and posted them, and then nobody used them because they are command-line utilities? God-awful simple ones with detailed instructions? but eh? nobody likes them. That pissed me off enough to throw my hands in the air and walk away from their development to this day. ?Nobody else cares, so why should I?? was the attitude that then got everyone against me? *sigh*

In the end, I make utilities *I* need, and release them if I get bored enough to do so. Ryandor plays with them, Xuri thinks about using them, and everyone else can go fuxx0r themselves. I do not get any specific questions about how to use them, just endless ?it?s an ugly text-based program that is confusing? shit from losers who?

Well here I am, all worked up again.

*calms down*

Well, I appreciate your work.

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 Post subject: yes...
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 5:43 pm 
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Grand Master
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yea, mul2bmp breaks it into two images, and is particularied targeted to making images that UOL can read (it uses the same xml files for the palette that UOL uses).

But what amazed with was the complaint that people could steal ones map, as if the mul file itself wasn't all ready on one's computer (so it was all ready "stolen").

anyway, getting over it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 6:02 pm 
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Your correct in your statement Punt (Syd too for that matter). Refusing to support your tool is a political crock of shit...

(Edits his post to remain *polite*)

If I still ran a UO related site I would promote your tool as well. The whiners should shut the hell up and crawl back under their rock. Rob and Orbsydia should be the "LAST" people to talk about integrity or honesty (*enhances his zen....* no I will never let it go)...

Pretty much "ANY" software ever made can be used for "evil...Muhahahahaha!!!!" purposes. A simple map making helper program should be the last thing they worry about. If someone wants to steal their maps (Not that I've found any worth actually stealing to start with) it really isnt very hard.

If you run a public shard then you can bank on the fact your map is already "stolen", people just dont use it to host hoards of kiddies on.

Lets remember the infamous words of wisdom...

"There is no honor among thieves"

so tell them to get their fingers out of your proverbial pocket and shut the hell up...

Dev

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 Post subject: In fairness....
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 6:06 pm 
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In fairness, Orbsydia is putting the file up for download.

It just amazed the responses it got on the forums over there original, and the rational given for not wanting to make such a tool.

As the tool is targeted for UOL, it seemed to make sense to be available on Orbsydia's web site. Who knows, maybe one day I will get around to cleaning up my "paint" map making program.

Just amazed how people see things. But then, I suppose others are as well of my viewpoints.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:54 pm 
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Hell I think that UO and all the EMU's that copy it could use all the tools that anyone has to offer.

The more tools, the more interest it generates.

The more interest it generates the more people play UO and work on the EMU's...

The world works on very simple laws...people just keep screwing them up...or was that getting screwed by them...*shrugs*?

People need to look around this pathetic huddle we call a community, its dying fast. There are less than 5 people or groups that I know of working on any tools for "any" EMU. Thats pretty pathetic when as one of the old timers I'm sure we all can remember the days when there was a new tool every week it seemed (and no one took any homosupositorus moral high ground back then either...).

Now we're lucky if RUNUO can publish an update once a year, POL every 2 years, Pandora's Box every 6 months etc...

So screw the morally lacking limpdicks and keep creating programs that the none whining, none waffling, none ass kissing, none politically correct "TRUE" members of the community want, need and enjoy using.


If not for a handful of minorities the majority wouldnt have anything to snivel about anyway!

Dev

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:45 am 
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Good point.

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 9:34 pm 
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Don't know how I missed this little gem. I agree with you wholeheartedly punt.

It also makes it clearer for me why I bother still to check in here (at least once in a while) whereas I check on Orbsydia very rarely. The politicalcorrecttouchyfeelyimokyourallgay thing doesn't sit well with me. While we have our whiners over here (when anyone bothers to post anymore) who feel the same way about nasty, tricksy, mapsymaksers stealing their preccccious mapssss, the community in general (all 5 of us as Dev likes to say) takes things with a grain of salt and a side of humor.

We had a little discussion about it when I made a maptrans that actually made Dragon map2bmp useful but it didn't even get anywhere close to as heated as Dev and Syd's normal dialogue, let alone anything earthshattering.

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 9:39 pm 
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And Syd I think the problem (well, the MAIN problem :P ) with STIC (when did you start calling it that? I think your tools have a different name everytime you mention them :shock: ) is drawing the images is way too complicated for most people. UOL works along the same premise and the altitude map had to be dumbed down so you could make heads or tails of what you were editing. Don't remember why I never wrote scripts for it. Can it handle 3-way trans?

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 10:35 pm 
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Hope the opinions of a few don't dissuade you from tool development Punt. I agree with all of your points.

The bottom line is, if someone is going to use another shard's work, they are able to do so quite easily without your utility.

What your utility does, however, is help simplify map development, modify the existing UO map easily, and enables us to re-generate BMP's from our source material. VERY useful!

Thanks Punt for creating this and other helpful utilities for the UO EMU scene.

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 12:48 am 
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Yeah, there have been many names for my programs. Originally, there was TBC (True Bitmap Converter), which I believe only Ryandor had a copy of. Six to eight months later I released TSMC (True-color Syd?s Map Converter) ? I could not call it TBC because it confused too many people due to the fact that it did not use Windows bitmaps for input. A while after that came STIC (Syd?s True-color Image Converter), which does the opposite of STMC. Now I house both tools under the name ?Ultima Genesis? to make things simple, but no version of UG has been released.

As for them being complex? I believe ?incomplete? would be a better word. It CAN do very basic transitions and item-placements, but nothing like Dragon can do. I prefer to use other programs for transitions.

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