Ryandor.com

Forums
It is currently Wed Jul 02, 2025 11:36 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Software Patents
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:12 pm 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
As many of you know, I am an avid programmer. In fact, I spend most of my free time programming, and lately have been quite active in the development of a simple first-person shooting game (like ?Giants?, but not as complex). As a result, I have become very active in many programming groups as of late, and today I was joining in the discussion of software patents.

For years, I knew of some software patents, particularly the one that makes it illegal for me to use the ?gif? image format in any of my software, but I had never been that worried about it before; after all, there are other image formats, right? I have always had faith in the U.S. Government in general, and thought that patents were restricted to very specific algorithms and methods of doing things ? so specific, in fact, that the chances of me reinventing one of them would be next to impossible.

The truth of the matter, as I am sad to discover, is quite the opposite. As it turns out, somebody has already patented just about every line of code in every program I have ever written. My eyes grew wide and my jaw dropped as I began to look through some software patents? I would not have believed such ignorance, such stupidity? There is a patent which covers the transfer of music over the internet using a server to a client (such as is the case when you visit a web site that has music playing, or download an MP3), and that is not even the worst! Every year, there are over 100,000 software patent applications.

The patent system has been used for over a hundred years as an incentive to foster innovation by protecting inventions from being copied after release. In order for a patent to be accepted, it must not be obvious, which is what makes an innovation an innovation. Historically speaking, this system has worked surprisingly well for real-world inventions. There is a major difference, though, between ?real world? and digital inventions? and that is the simple fact that the vast majority of low-level components that we use in products were invented well before the patent system, and were invented over the course of thousands of years.

Software, on the other hand, has existed solely since the inception of the patent system, and as thus, every tiny little aspect of it has been fought over in the patent office. Some of these patents are the digital equivalent to paper ? obvious, and in common use. Not only that, but software innovation occurs with each and every product ? that is, after all, why we aren?t all still playing Doom 1. Unlike the real world, software is nothing BUT ideas ? ideas that must be improved to stand out from the competition.

Unfortunately, the patent office deems just about every software patent as being ?not obvious? since the people sitting at the desks stamping ?approved? on incoming applications do not have the foggiest clue as to how to wrap their minds around the very verbose and blatantly padded descriptions. The music one I told you about above is several pages long because it includes all kinds of small details which make it sound complex, but in practice, are unbelievably common ? they go so far as to mention that their idea is unique because they plan to store the music on hard drives on the server, and plan to distribute it over the? wait for it? INTERNET! Of course, they say that in as many big words as possible.

So why are we not hearing about this in the news more often? Why are big corporations not folding as a result? Well, they are beginning to. You see, the vast majority of these patents are not being made to protect the work of the author; they are being made to attack anyone who stumbles across the same idea several years later. Activision went bankrupt when another company sued them for violation of their patent which covered the use of pixel-based collision detection, and that is just one of many such companies that have fell. Look up some of these cases; rarely do you see the aggressor in a lawsuit that actually uses the technology they patented!

A lovely example is AVG (not the anti-virus people, but ?American Video Graphics?), a practically unknown company that patented the idea of displaying 3D graphics on a 2D screen and allowing panning and zooming in 1987. Well, guess what? Just about every game made in the 90?s, and by far the vast majority made since, have been 3D games displayed on 2D screens? but did AVG bother pointing out their ownership of the patent, or worry about losses they were accruing as a result? No. They waited until last year to file a lawsuit against every major game publisher in the nation and threaten a good many more developers as well. If they win, you will never again see a 3D game or application made by a small company or lone developer ? you will have to pay them a patent licensing fee to develop any such thing.

With the billions of dollars behind the companies they are suing (which includes heavy-hitters such as EA and Ubisoft), you can bet they will not win ? they bit off way more than they could chew. Usually, though, it is the other way around ? you see big corporations that sit on technologies they do not even use, waiting to use it against some small start-up that might potentially compete with one of their other products, then bang, dead.

It is not even limited to potentially threatening software companies, anymore, though! Oh no, even free open-source software is beginning to be attacked. They have nothing to lose ? no money behind them, but their mere existence is a threat, and as a result, they are being bombarded by more and more lawsuits that threaten their web hosts and make their development in general less than flourishing. Forget starting your own software company that actually sells a product ? if you are remotely popular enough to make a ?bleep? on someone radar, say goodbye to your hard work. You may fight one or two off, but they will eventually win.

I was pleased to discover that, at least, Europe did not support such idiocy. No, they do not acknowledge software patents, so development there is flourishing? that is why you are beginning to see some innovative stuff come from Europe ? they do not have to walk through the minefield of patents every time they start a project. Then I found out that this will not be the case for much longer ? the European Union is deciding soon (Monday?) whether to allow them or not ? and in order to continue not supporting them, they will need an absolute majority ? something that likely will not occur.

So what will happen? Nothing? yet. Companies are waiting until their patents are in wide-spread use, and that is just now beginning to happen for those that began back in the 80?s and early 90?s? Soon, though, it will nail the coffin shut in the software industry. No new software companies, no major innovations? it will be the dark ages all over again, but for software engineers such as me. Small companies are being attacked as we speak, and it will not be long before even hobbyists in basements writing shareware will become targets.

Look at your pile of CDs next to your computer? how many of them contain software from EA? Microsoft? Sony?... how many are from small developers?... It is hard enough to be a small developer as it is, and being abandoned on a legal minefield is bound to destroy the chances of even the brightest college students who do not want to become employee of the month at a big corporation.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:39 pm 
Offline
Posting Whore
Posting Whore

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:21 pm
Posts: 1434
Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
Agree 100%!

I think patents have served their purpose but have outlived their usefullness...

If you think the software industry is horrible...you should see the Medical industry. Between the drug companies and the medical device manufacturers you don't stand a chance at anything.

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:09 am 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
I believe we should all spread the word. I put a small banner on my site and will be adding more in the near future. Perhaps if enough people realize the stupidity of it all, something may start to happen?

The sad thing is that it is far easier to make a dent in the European system since they are still in limbo, than it is to make a real difference in the United States. While I have never cared before, I took the time to sign a few petitions against allowing software patents in the European Union, and have tried to convince others to do so as well.

In the United States, I do not think anything will change until one of two things happen. Either small developers band together and find a tactic to legally defend themselves and somehow hurt the big corporations at the same time, or until too many patents (as if that were not already the case) are granted, and all software development implodes as a result (beginning to happen, anyway).

One idea bumping around in my head is community-driven web site where ?patent friendly? software companies and their products are listed, as well as evil ones. It would be an easy way to find out if you are inadvertently funding an evildoer or helping a good company. It would also encourage companies to be on the ?good side? by not prosecuting any patent infringements, and thus gaining the support and respect of the community. Obviously, this idea would only work if it were very popular, though. For all I know, such a thing might already exist.

As for the pharmaceutical industry, that is a whole other ballpark! I think patents are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this industry. I could not even begin to think of how to solve this riddle.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:01 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:01 pm
Posts: 1473
Location: CO, USA
Here's an intersting book regarding this whole issue:
Free Culture: How Big Media Uses Technology and the Law to Lock Down Culture and Control Creativity
by Lawrence Lessig
http://www.free-culture.cc/freeculture.pdf

This book is free and is a long, but a good read. It explains quite a bit about copyright. I highly recommend it. I finished reading this last week.

Source: http://free-culture.org/freecontent/

-Ryandor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:08 am 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
I am going to start using a rotating banner on the top of my pages for this issue. Sites I plan to link to are http://www.eff.org and http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com ? Any others anybody knows about?

The EFF looks enticing, especially since their office is in San Francisco (I am there 3 or 4 days a week), and I would not mind volunteering there if I had the time. Unfortunately, they seem to be appealing more to music downloaders (people will think pirates) with their selection of banners. All I could find was a single sticker that did not allude to downloading music. That is also an issue I support them on, so I will be including one such banner anyway.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:43 pm 
Offline
Slayer of Fools
Slayer of Fools
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:54 pm
Posts: 1289
Ryandor wrote:
Here's an intersting book regarding this whole issue:
Free Culture: How Big Media Uses Technology and the Law to Lock Down Culture and Control Creativity
by Lawrence Lessig
http://www.free-culture.cc/freeculture.pdf

This book is free and is a long, but a good read. It explains quite a bit about copyright. I highly recommend it. I finished reading this last week.

Source: http://free-culture.org/freecontent/

-Ryandor


Great. Write us a book report summarizing it and I'll read it :P

_________________
This space for rent.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:27 pm 
Offline
Posting Whore
Posting Whore

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:21 pm
Posts: 1434
Location: Colorado Springs, Co.
500 words single space and all must contain at least 2 letters and no "T's"...that should make it interesting :twisted:

And it has to make sense!

Dev

_________________
"So...if crazy people don't know their crazy...does that mean your only sane if your know your crazy?"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:48 am 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
I have been reading it; it seems good. The author seems to avoid the point of the book for as far as I have read into it (~70 pages), though. All it has done so far is explain what the book is about and given some (albeit very good) examples in non-computer related things that support the point of the book? but that point hasn?t been gotten to, yet.

It is a good book to anger you at big business and maybe even depress you over the subject. I would recommend it just based on what I have read, even though I do not care for the authors ability to avoid the point for so long.

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:00 am 
Offline
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:28 pm
Posts: 759
Location: Denver, CO
the site where you downlaod that book has a link to this page which i think syd is like your creative community but not quite what you have in mind, but its a place to keep tabs on. :wink:


http://creativecommons.org/

_________________
http://ax-n.net Admin X's News and Resources


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:59 am 
Offline
Peanut Gallery
Peanut Gallery
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:53 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Hayward, CA
That is cool but not what I was talking about. It appears to me that it is like the LGPL, without the requirement to disclose source, but with the requirement to give credit. I got the impression that it means you can do whatever you want with the work, as long as you give credit ? which will not work for the vast majority of software, especially commercial.

I am not opposed to closed-source traditional money-hungry corporate software, so long as they do not use patents against anyone or any entity. After all, I would love to run a million dollar software company, but not by playing dirty (which may be the only way to get in, and maintain, such a situation).

_________________
Blog: http://www.sydius.org
Web: http://www.sydius.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:53 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 4:42 pm
Posts: 63
Even in Europe there is possibility, that this idiocy became real. :evil:


Thats not matter of patents itself, but of money. If you have money, or friends, you can buy any law you wish.

Do you wish unlimited money source in future? Bribe govement and buy law, that will do that. For eg say, that from every toilet paper sold there will be tax for "sewer gild"........which you own. Better than investing into stocks.....


Its absurd, but similiar stories REALLY happen every day....

You cannot blame companies, they only want to increase their profit and there is no morale in business.
Blame corrupted goverments and institutions, which allow that.


Time to overthrow all goverments and start live in freeworld.

_________________
Endor Team leader, visit our web site:
http://www.endor.cz/index-en.php


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:01 pm
Posts: 1473
Location: CO, USA
Another link with a short article:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/view.html?pg=3


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group