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The earliest stage of map making
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Author:  kismetlafiete [ Fri Sep 13, 2002 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  The earliest stage of map making
Hi guys! I've been reading through here and playing around with Dragon/Worldforge etc. I used to be a GM on TDS, if any of you have heard of it. With my introduction out of the way, I have a question that seems simple but for me is not. I have went through the tutorials on map mapking and mountains(caves), etc., until I was very comfortable with the workings of dragon, photoshop, and worldforge but the problem I have is the lowest level of design - coming up with the map in the first place.

I was simply wondering if you guys think of what you want it to look like (IE: how many bays, penninsulas[sp],mountain ranges, rivers, etc.) beforehand, or if you just kind of draw a shape and get creative. I made a couple of rough sketches on paper but they all look kind of bland, while maps that others create look cool, or at least "artistic."

Was thinking of making a program that would make random maps and let you save it if you like it (just a black & white bmp of the basic coast outlines) but that seems like it would look sort of generic.

Just looking for ideas on getting a basic design. I really want to make a map and either distribute it or run it on my own small shard... I was thinking maybe my designs looked bland because I made it, and I know all about it, whereas other people's maps I'm seeing for the first time, but I don't think that's it.

Sorry :oops: for the long post but I wanted to express my problem/thoughts accurately

post #1 8)
Author:  Xelah [ Sat Sep 14, 2002 1:03 am ]
Post subject: 
howdy.

I haven't made many maps, though the ones that everyone tends to like better are the ones I had a plan beforehand. There's actually a neat trick that I learned recently that will give you interesting looking maps. If you can find topographical maps of various coastal regions, scan them and change their colors to the ones used by dragon. If not you can go to maps.com and copy their previews (you'll have to edit out the maps.com logo), Click here for a topographical map of Hong Kong. Then make a few edits of your own (maybe rotating it by 90 degrees) and you'll have an interesting map (What could be less realistic than using a real map?).

As for the generic map generator, I can see potential to that. I'd include features like the ablitity to set the number of major continents, large islands, medium islands, and small islands. However, if I were feeling really on top of my VB, I'd insert a graphical intereface where the user could choose the locations of island chains and continents on an on-screen display. But if not, just a generic mapper tool would be useful.
Author:  Ryandor [ Sat Sep 14, 2002 6:01 am ]
Post subject: 
There's a few ways I create an initial map

First, and most common is to draw it with paper and pencil. Generally just basic shapes. When I see something that might have a possibility, I'll erase parts of the coast and put in bays or pennisulas.
Sometimes I'll have an idea or story that works particularily well with a specific world design. In that case it's a little easier since I have something in mind.

The second method I use is using a program to ramdonly generate the landmasses for me. Just running it multiple times, I can come up with a cool looking world design. There are fractal terrain generators out there
that can be of use for this.

The thrid way is what Xelah said and use an existing map from somewhere and modify it. I generally don't do that, but there are times I've taken a part of a map (in particular, funny shaped islands) and used them.

-Ryandor
Author:  gmMerlin [ Sat Sep 14, 2002 4:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well what i do is sketch drawings. mostly i check the clouds to believe it or not i also use http://www.profantasy.com/ 's map making programs. also the dungeons i look at my carpet its a multi colored one right and i look at it and find a line of colors that match
Author:  Sydius [ Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would suggest just opening up your favorite map program, and puting a bunch of random shapes on it with a large circle brush. Then go a couple sizes down, and around those large shapes, just make 'em a lil more randomized. Then another brush size down and repeat. Keep repeating until you're using a very tiny brush. This method takes a while, but has good realalistic results. The fewer straight or geometric coasts, the better. Same works for mountains/forests, too.
Author:  kismetlafiete [ Mon Sep 16, 2002 6:02 am ]
Post subject: 
well I got bored and decided to make the generator and see what kind of results it gave. It doesn't look too bad, but it is running in dos via Pascal atm, so I will need to translate it over to vb sometime this week. I'd leave it in dos but to use large arrays it gets pretty ugly, and it's far too slow IMO testing the color of pixels :)
in the state it's in now, it takes about 45 seconds to generate a full map of random landmasses
I made it fairly modular so I'm HOPING in VB I can just let the user make a box and it will draw a really small "mini-map" inside it, so they can specify how many continents and size, but.... we'll see :P

I also have no clue how to save to a bitmap in pascal, so that's the other reason I need to switch
Author:  Xelah [ Mon Sep 16, 2002 6:19 am ]
Post subject: 
LOL I haven't written anything in Pascal in . . . damn that was a long time ago.
Author:  kismetlafiete [ Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
heh... if I had a copy of delphi, translation would be a breeze :)

I always liked pascal the most for some reason... even over OO languages that are more powerful :)

not to mention, up to date :D
Author:  Sydius [ Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm a huge C/C++ fan. Every other language other than C/C++ and assembly sucks :-( heh

But anyway the Bitmap format is a pain, but check www.wotsit.org for the format, that's where I got it from.
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